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380kmh's profile
Haunted Forrest 🌲
Haunted Forrest 🌲
Haunted Forrest  🌲
@380kmh

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Haunted Forrest  🌲

@380kmh

#TrainTwitter - trains & train stations - passionate opinions on public transit & civic design - transit bureacrat, but all views here are my own

Pioneer Valley
patreon.com/380kmh
Joined March 2011

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    1. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      Flat junctions are problematic enough on the London Underground. They're a real mess on the south London rail network. Don't know Boston's commuter rail that well - is it that bad? Or is it worse because passenger rail hasn't been the priority it has been elsewhere?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon @380kmh

      And certainly historically commuter rail in London was far less attractive than the Tube in places where both are options (eg Enfield).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      "Commuter rail" in Tokyo is more or less indistinguishable from subways--they employ the same kinds of trains and even offer through service from commuter to subway lines. I talk about "commuter rail" so people know what I mean, but the term I prefer is "suburban rail"

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      Something I've not seen in Europe. We have the RER concept, where commuter trains run through the centre in separate tunnels, but not commuter trains on subway tracks. Not any more anyway. (We used to - the District line once had trains to Southend.)

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      The RER concept is pretty much the same concept

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      It's a bit different because you have much bigger tunnels, longer platforms and fewer and further between stations. And less frequent trains (RER C in Paris is particularly bad for that).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      Differences in tunnel dimensions or platform length can easily exist *within* a subway network (Tokyo's has 3 different gauges and at least 3 different power sources!). Wider station spacing is the same from rider's perspective as skip-stop services on more dense lines...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      But isn't the Japanese concept that the *same* lines are both subway and commuter rail? Rather than having short-haul subways and long-haul commuter trains in separate tunnels?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      Japan has short-haul subway lines with no commuter rail through service, as well as short-haul subway lines with through service onto commuter rail, as well as commuter rail without subway through service.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @380kmh

      The through service is the difference. Actually I was being slightly unfair to London: apart from the Met, the Bakerloo does run on the Watford DC line and the District on the line to Richmond. But these aren't like the Japanese ones.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
      Replying to @uncriticalsimon

      But it's a difference that only came about by historical accident, and even then only partially (as you've described, there *are* through services in London, just very little integration between suburban and urban lines).

      10:14 AM - 13 Dec 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @380kmh

          Paris is more clearly segregated. But you usually don't want 300 metre commuter trains on the same tracks as 130 metre subway trains

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @uncriticalsimon

          Correction: you *can't* have them on the same platform. If they were of a compatible length, why wouldn't you want them to? Moreover, why should they be of such radically different lengths in the first place?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Simon‏ @uncriticalsimon 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @380kmh

          Mainly the cost of building, and especially extending, underground stations. And the time taken to clear stations and points.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @uncriticalsimon

          I'm not sure you read my tweet: *if they were of compatible length,* why wouldn't you want them to use the same tracks? And, following on that, what advantage is conferred to the riders by having them of such different lengths in the first place?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh 13 Dec 2017
          Replying to @380kmh @uncriticalsimon

          Bear in mind that if you want to double capacity on a line, you can either double the size of the trains, or double the frequency: the latter option has the extra benefit of shortening wait times for riders and increasing the number of possible trips in a day.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation

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