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380kmh's profile
Haunted Forrest 🌲
Haunted Forrest 🌲
Haunted Forrest  🌲
@380kmh

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Haunted Forrest  🌲

@380kmh

#TrainTwitter - trains & train stations - passionate opinions on public transit & civic design - transit bureacrat, but all views here are my own

Pioneer Valley
patreon.com/380kmh
Joined March 2011

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    1. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13

      Imagine if we applied the same reasoning we use in transport to, say, food distribution: if grocery stores charged, say, $5 per item (any item) instead of charging market rate for most and letting those who need it use gov aid.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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    2. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13

      Rather than subject grocery stores to the insane logic of public transit, I'm interested in doing the reverse: base transit fares on the ACTUAL COST of providing the service, and offer discounted or free passes as a welfare benefit for those who need it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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    3. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13

      I contend that the result would be a much more extensive transit network, used by a much broader range of the population, largely independent of shifts in the whims of taxpayers. Admittedly we have a very low bar to clear in these respects.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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    4. Jarrett Walker‏Verified account @humantransit Jun 13
      Replying to @380kmh

      Well, to do it really fairly, it would be based on operating cost per rider, so empty buses would be more expensive to ride than full ones. See Ch 11 of my book. That would result in the collapse of most coverage services and retreat to the high-ridership network.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13
      Replying to @humantransit

      I recall--but I also contend that this goes beyond what's practical for the sake of what's fair in theory. The arcane fare system for trains in UK charges more or less based on how full a train is, but this ends up being much more confusing than the Japanese approach...

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13
      Replying to @380kmh @humantransit

      ...which charges based on distance (with surcharges for seat reservations, etc, where available), but the same rate for the same distance regardless of level of crowding or time of day.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Bensh‏ @bensh__ Jun 13
      Replying to @380kmh @humantransit

      Part of the point of a modern stored-value fare system is that "confusing" differential fares can be baked into the system without confusion for the rider

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13
      Replying to @bensh__ @humantransit

      They have stored value fare in Japan (I half expect they had it first) too--shifting fares based on crowding can be processed easily that way, but it still means the possibility of not being able to afford a trip you normally make with little warning...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13
      Replying to @380kmh @bensh__ @humantransit

      ...which is why I think the marginal increase in fare "accuracy" is not worth the trouble for riders.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Bensh‏ @bensh__ Jun 13
      Replying to @380kmh @humantransit

      Best-practice farecards have negative balance and autoload capabilities...theoretically no one should be denied at a faregate with a valid product. The point is more about incentivizing off-peak ridership more than the "accurate" compensation

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13
      Replying to @bensh__ @humantransit

      I'm familiar with that justification too, and to address it I only point out that cities which do this still experience heavy crowding at peak hours. But even if it worked I'd object to charging people extra to ensure trains go underutilized during peak demand!

      3:13 PM - 13 Jun 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Haunted Forrest  🌲‏ @380kmh Jun 13
          Replying to @380kmh @bensh__ @humantransit

          I think crowding on trains is its own disincentive, rather like traffic congestion--people who can travel at other times will already prefer to; charging extra just means hosing the poorest

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